| Madd_Mugsy |
| Adept |
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| Reged: 07/14/04 |
| Posts: 220 |
| Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
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I've been
playing around with the PMB (Private Mobile Base), and discovered I
couldn't see some dialog options to upgrade it. Turns out it was
because I had merged the dialogue using TESTool. I deactivated the
esps, re-merged, and then copied in the original esps. And now it
works fine.
I also saw that the "duties" topic doesn't pop
up when you go visit the guy in Seyda Neen to get your package for
Casius Cosades when you've cleaned/merged the Alternate Beginnings
mod. So I just uninstalled it  .
Anyone else see this?
From what I've seen here in the forums
 ,
these kinds of problems are the case with a number of mods. I tried
to find a list of mods that shouldn't be cleaned or merged, but
didn't, so I thought I'd start one. 
Let me know if there's already a thread like this  .
I don't want to re-create the wheel here. 
The Uncleanable/Unmergeable Mods List:
Private
Mobile Base (PMB)
Alternate Beginnings
--------------------
If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras:    |
| fable2 |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 05/18/04 |
| Posts: 1054 |
| Loc: Currently: The US. Desired: The
Netherlands. | |
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It may just a
be a case of the Merge Dialog ESP being loaded too early by
TESTool's Merge List. I've had that happen, with certain pieces of
dialog from one or another mod not appearing or appearing too often.
Moving the Merge Dialog ESP down further, close to the last of the
loaded ESP files, solved the problem.
Post
Extras: |
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i dont know of
any uncleanable mods. there are a lot that are badly made and cause
errors though, listing those would take quite a while.
the
worst made mod i have seen is snakbittens lair it causes a LOT of
errors and doesnt like you trying to change it.
this thread
could turn into a name and shame thread for poorly made mods lol
oh and also the testool doesnt have a foolproof dialogue
merge yet so it may be a problem with the tool not the mod. tbh i
have never got it to work right meging dialogue but never had any
problems playing either.
--------------------
on leaving
school emersed in philatroic (notions of a kind these days i find
unthinkable) I pulled my frail frame onto my charger and rode off
into the sunset, with agenda predicatable. Fresh faced and tragicaly
convinced that blind faith could make an infantile normative,
playground theory of social interation.
Post Extras: |
| Madd_Mugsy |
| Adept |
|
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| Reged: 07/14/04 |
| Posts: 220 |
| Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
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Quote:
It may just a be a case of the Merge Dialog ESP being loaded
too early by TESTool's Merge List. I've had that happen, with
certain pieces of dialog from one or another mod not appearing or
appearing too often. Moving the Merge Dialog ESP down further,
close to the last of the loaded ESP files, solved the problem.
I'll have to try that when I get home from work.  <---
trophy for you 
Quote:
i dont know of any uncleanable mods. there are a lot that are
badly made and cause errors though, listing those would take quite
a while.
I think that there are a few
that you can't clean or load into the editor without screwing them
up. In fact, the PMB actually says not to do this in the readme
(which I probably should have read first )
Quote:
this thread could turn into a name and shame thread for poorly
made mods lol
Ahahahaha! I'll start a new
thread for that one soon 
Quote:
oh and also the testool doesnt have a foolproof dialogue merge
yet so it may be a problem with the tool not the mod.
Exactly. That's why I wanted to know which mods don't work with it
right now.
--------------------
If you hate working for
those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats
and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
| Ronin49 |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 03/08/04 |
| Posts: 1792 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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Madd_Mugsy -
You are correct: there are a few mods you are cautioned not to clean
and some others it has been learnt by experience. Apparently the
Multiple Teleport Marking Mod v2.2 by Marcel Hesselbarth is
one of those that should not be cleaned. You might want to check
that before you print it as truth.
--------------------
"And to everyone seeing naked and
headless people, READ THE README!!! It's the answer to all your
troubles." Neoptolemus
Mythic Mods
----> Starting Out With Mods, Telesphoros' List o'Mods,
Ronin49's Lists & Links, Theme Mod Lists.
Post Extras: |
| Turjan |
| Curate |
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| Reged: 06/23/03 |
| Posts: 531 |
| Loc: Mesa, AZ | |
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Others that
are a bit allergic to cleaning are "Traveling Merchants", "The Twin
Lamps", and the "FTG". At least the latter two behave if you shift
them to a late loading place.
Post Extras:
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Madd_Mugsy,
TESTool did not delete the missing 'Duties' topic during cleaning.
The topic is deleted by the 'Alternate Beginnings' mod itself. If
you are still interested in playing the mod I have a reworked .esp
you can run in which the 'Duties' topic appears as usual. You can
find it here:
http://morrowind4kids.com/pseronwyrd/Clean%20altbegin.rar
This has been noted by other people and discussed in these
forums (and my fix posted there) but Bethesda has deleted those
threads from its server (there's some kind of irony at work here).
It's a good thing that you've brought this up again so that this fix
can be accessed by people doing a forum search. Thank you.
Post Extras: |
tegger |
| Creepy ShadowLady |
|
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| Reged: 09/11/02 |
| Posts: 15702 |
| Loc: United States | |
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Quote:
Quote:
this thread could turn into a name and shame thread for
poorly made mods lol
Ahahahaha! I'll start a new
thread for that one soon
Nooooo, please don't do that.
Contrary to popular belief, I do not enjoy closing threads.
--------------------
Everyone always
overgeneralizes everything entirely too much.
~TSL )O(
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you know you
do really lol. dont worry though i promise i wont do that (any more
)
--------------------
on leaving school emersed in
philatroic (notions of a kind these days i find unthinkable) I
pulled my frail frame onto my charger and rode off into the sunset,
with agenda predicatable. Fresh faced and tragicaly convinced that
blind faith could make an infantile normative, playground theory of
social interation.
Post Extras: |
|
|
|
Quote:
oh and also the testool doesnt have a foolproof
dialogue merge yet so it may be a problem with the tool not the
mod. tbh i have never got it to work right meging dialogue but
never had any problems playing either.
oh?!
I had testool
go belly up on me big time, when i first used it!
I told it
to "fix me" with the restricted cell cleaning, which of course does
the dialogue thing too.
what a dialogue mess did i get !!:-o
every
npc was the keeper of xxxx sword and every npc in sedya had the same
dialogues, none ever native to *that* part of vandervall!!
i
read a post later where someone says..."testool does not yet merge
conflicting dialogues very well, espcecially for mods that
Are of islands off from the shore of
vandervall!
another post suggested that only "real" dialogue
mods be conflictmerged, like pc voice and vgreetings.
from
then on i only
...made level list.
made item list.
only
dialogue listmerged the above mods. seems to work.
freestone
Post Extras: |
| Madd_Mugsy |
| Adept |
|
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| Reged: 07/14/04 |
| Posts: 220 |
| Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
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Any more out
there?
--------------------
If you hate working for those
5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
| ikariGendo |
| Initiate |
|
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| Reged: 07/24/04 |
| Posts: 59 |
| Loc: Mud Hut, Scotland | |
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Vampire
Embrace is another one. I think it has GMSTs relating to companion
share.
I was wondering, should the Unnofficial MW patch be
cleaned with TESTool or left as is 
Post Extras: |
| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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Key Replacer
suggest that you not run TesTool on it also.
Cortex has suggested
not running the dialogue merge against Vampire
Embrace.
Post Extras: |
| Ronin49 |
| Disciple |
|
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| Reged: 03/08/04 |
| Posts: 1792 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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Courtesy of
Mahatma_Dandee on another thread re Multi Mark Mod Rules
:
Quote:
Rules to deal with this mod:
1. Never load it via CS
2. Try to place it as high as possible on your mod list
3.
Clean ALL the plugins above (IMO TESPCD is the best)
4. Do not
clean particular esp-s of our mod ( main esp and this for Tribunal
are clean; esp for Bloodmoon has 5-6 unclean entries - leave them
(this dirt is healthy )
Any more mods that need
special care to mention? I would like to see them all listed in a
thread like this so we can refer folk to
it.
--------------------
"And to everyone
seeing naked and headless people, READ THE README!!! It's the answer
to all your troubles." Neoptolemus
Mythic Mods
----> Starting Out With Mods, Telesphoros' List o'Mods,
Ronin49's Lists & Links, Theme Mod Lists.
Post Extras: |
| Thepal |
| Disciple |
|
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| Reged: 06/21/03 |
| Posts: 1375 |
| Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
| |
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Quote:
I was wondering, should the Unnofficial MW patch be cleaned
with TESTool or left as is
I was just going to mention
that.
The Unofficial patch is not "clean". There are many
things that could be removed from it really, but nothing was edited
accidently. Basically, the "unclean" things are stuff that TESCS
sets when you change something, but they don't really need to be set
(such as the dialogue entries before and after one you add). TESTool
can remove all these nice and easy.
The problem with this is
that it also removes things that are meant to be changed (because of
the weird things I do and the weird ways I do them). And for that
reason I'd not recommend using TESTool to clean it. And I'm not
going to bother using TESAME to go through and delete thousands of
things one by one, so the Patch will never be cleaned by me. You
shouldn't get any problems from using the "unclean" version anyway.
--------------------
-==Thepal==-
Creator of the
Unofficial Patch. For info on that or my Ultima 9 remake or my Quest
for Glory remakes go to: http://etherealsoftware.com.au/forum/index.php
Post Extras: |
| Zappara |
| Adept |
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| Reged: 08/15/03 |
| Posts: 272 |
| Loc: Lost Dwemer city | |
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I've had
trouble cleaning Blood&Gore mod but the "unclean" version works
just fine.
--------------------
[WIP] Tombs Expanded
Disturb the Dead 3.31
Isle of Thumzand: Nerevarine's
Castle 0.9beta
+ other mods
My Morrowind plugin pages
Post Extras: |
| Daduke |
| Diviner |
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| Reged: 07/12/02 |
| Posts: 2172 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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ahem - was a
bit worried there when i recieved a pm about keyreplacer 'cleaness'
but for the record due to post in this thread - there is nothing
unclean about this mod, it can be cleaned, merged etc using TESTool
or any other means people can come up with... in fact I might even
let slip about 1.4
--------------------
Daduke assumes certain things are
understood namely that he makes requests not demands and what he say
is his opinion and that some of the things he says are humorous
-Motoki-
----------
My Website
Post Extras: |
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Iudas, I do
not know where you had your ideas from, but for sure not from the
readme or from the auther .
I will encourage you before you send such a opinion to check it out
yourself first, as it contributes to big confuson, especially for
newbes. The Key Replacer thing seemed strange to me, as using this
mod from the very beginig I have never faced any problems. Thus, I
PM-ed to Daduke (see above); To be exact, this is what he wrote to
me:
"Anyhow -
1. Can I combine The Key Replacer with the
other mods ? ( I know the rules to follow for merging mods )
Yes
2. Can I use TESTool for your mod?
Yes
3. Can I clean
The Key Replacer, or leave it as it is ( I know that sometimes
unclean entries are not really unclean)
Yes but it is already
clean
That post you metion was incorrectly posted - thank
you for bring it to my attention though
Cheers
Daduke"
No problems here.
Plz, if you have no
solid evidence (readme, author's opinion, real long term personal
experience etc.) do not raport here plugins as uncleanable or
unmergeable .
Ppl, like Mighty Ronin 49, who want to help to establish the list of
the problematical mods for our community, have much more difficult
task.
Respect to all who raported the real issues .
Thank you very much,
M_D
--------------------
http://www.elderscrolls.phx.pl/
___________________________________
Beeing powerful is like
beeing a lady, if you need to tell it to people, then you are not
Post Extras: |
| Witraz |
| Initiate |
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| Reged: 08/24/04 |
| Posts: 77 |
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I merge
everything except dialogue you're asking for trouble if you do that.
Otherwise I've not experienced any problem with the mods that I have
and merged. Just leave the dialogue alone though, lol
Post Extras: |
| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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For the
record, Open TesTool, select the clean esp option, select
keyreplacer. Now read the damn message TesTool puts on the
screen.
I quote:
TESTool
! File Key Replacer Trib and
BM.esp contains duplicate objects.
You can either trust TES
plugin tool to remove those objects and save a cleaned file or skip
it, so you can resave it in the TES Construction set ( resaving will
remove duplicate objects ) and clean it later.
Do you want to
continue cleaning Key Replacer Trib &BM.esp
yes
no
That's the message I get and I bet it's the same message
you get.
Post Extras: |
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Any mod is
cleanable, just gotta have the Know-how  !
Post Extras: |
| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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If you read my
post, I did not say or imply that Key Replacer was unclean. TesTool
gives a very specific message when a cleaning attempt is run against
Key Replacer. I have run TesTool against 500+ different mods so far
and yours is the only mod so far that TesTool gives a specific
message about.
This thread is not about unclean mods, it is about
mods that Should not be cleaned or merged for whatever reason with
TesTool.
Post Extras: |
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Point taken.
There are two schools, though:
One says - "do not use
dialogue merging at all"
Second says - "merge only
V-Greetings, Voice Addons and such; nothing else"
After very
difficult time and too many hard-core bugs I received trying to use
merged dialogue list, I am very much afraid evan to try the second
obtion. Could I know your opinion, plz?.
--------------------
http://www.elderscrolls.phx.pl/
___________________________________
Beeing powerful is like
beeing a lady, if you need to tell it to people, then you are not
Edited by Mahatma_Dandee (08/31/04
08:11 AM)
Post Extras: |
| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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Quote:
Iudas, I do not know where you had your ideas from
In this case from a very specific
message TesTool puts on screen when you start to run it against
KeyReplacer.
Quote:
I will encourage you before you send such a opinion to check
it out yourself first
I did. Actually I did twice and
then again this morning so that makes three times I have checked
this out and three times TesTool has put up that specific message
concerning Key Replacer. But it's awfuly nice to be encouraged to do
something I have already done.
Quote:
That post you metion was incorrectly posted
Well no, if you read what I
said in my post, I said nothing about cleanliness or mergeability or
whether you could or could not clean it if you
wanted.
Quote:
Plz, if you have no solid evidence ...
Warnings and informational
messages specific to a mod from the Program in question usually
count as SOLID EVIDENCE.
Or you and DaDuke could just try it
yourself and see if you don't get the same informational
warning.
Post Extras: |
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Quote:
If you read my post, I did not say or imply that Key Replacer
was unclean. TesTool gives a very specific message when a cleaning
attempt is run against Key Replacer. I have run TesTool against
500+ different mods so far and yours is the only mod so far that
TesTool gives a specific message about.
This thread is not
about unclean mods, it is about mods that Should not be cleaned or
merged for whatever reason with TesTool.
Dear Sir,
First of all
thank you for reminding all of us what this thread is all about.
Second, if you have such a detailed info about The Key Replacer -
TESTool issue, why could not you be more specific in the first
place?. I honestly do not remember the TESTool masage, but I can say
that I have not experienced any problems with the mod. I refuse to
check "the damn message" just to prove some useless points. I do it
to check if the TESTool has some issues I am not aware off. Next I
will raport it.
Thank you, M_D
--------------------
http://www.elderscrolls.phx.pl/
___________________________________
Beeing powerful is like
beeing a lady, if you need to tell it to people, then you are not
Post Extras: |
| Iudas |
| Disciple |
|
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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Funny thing
about that, as we see several times in this thread, one mod's dirt
is another mod's necessity. So yeah any mod can be cleaned, if the
cleaner is sure of the definition of dirt.
Post Extras: |
| Iudas |
| Disciple |
|
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
| |
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Quote:
...why could not you be more specific in the first place
Because there was not an
issue. There was a SUGGESTION from TesTool.exe regarding this mod. I
did not elaborate because there was nothing more to
elaborate.
TesTool suggested, so I didn't clean KeyRepacer,
installed it uncleaned and unsaved and it works. The only issue is
that TesTool gives a very specific message related to this
mod.
Quote:
I refuse to check "the damn message" just to prove some
useless points. I do it to check if the TESTool has some issues I
am not aware off. Next I will raport it.
Whether your motive is to score a
debating point with me or investigate the way TesTool responds to
KeyReplacer is your business.
But might I, in the spirit of
amicability and friendliness, suggest that the next time you feel
called upon to instruct someone's behaviour and impugn someone's
intelligence that you first do a wee bit of investigating.
Post Extras: |
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